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Jul 02, 2004

Comments

JustCatholicChyck

I just stumbled on this bolg, I am always looking for interesting Catholic sites so I will have to bookmark. Although I want to add a comment to this post. I am a devout Catholic, I am %100 percent Pro-life, and dedicated 4.5 years of my life to working for the pro-life cause. Yet, in the next election I will vote Democrat, because I can not in good concience let the current Presidant remain in office. Can I say I used to vote only on abortion but since the last election have changed my mind.

Why?

Well I started studying Catholic Church teaching on social issues, and I read pretty much everything the Pope said in relation to the US led attack on Iraq. While this presidant may have said he is anti-abortion (except that he supports abortion in the case of rape, incest, health of a mother and a few other reasons), he has done nothing to make abortion less commone.

Even worse, he led the US a pro-death nation into an illegal and unjust attack against Iraq a country that was 100% pro-life. From my point of view he is extremly anti-life since he caused thousands of Iraqi's to die based on unjust reasons, that Rome condemned.

Yes, I hate to vote for Kerry but at least I don't think he will be as anti-life as Bush. He too might not do anything about abortion, but MAYBE (saying with crossed fingers) he will respect at least the life of those who are already around.

Yes, and I say all this with a heavy heart, I will as a Catholic be forced to vote for someone who I do not agree with to keep someone even worse out of office.

Pax!
CatholicChyck.

Stephen

Hi! Thanks for coming to my blog. I agree with you that the options this November are not very good. On the one hand we have a president with whom I have been more than a little disappointed in. On the other we have the possibility of a president who is, in my opinion, very scary. It might be true that Kerry would pursue another plan in regards to Iraq, but I don't feel very sure that he will not lead us into other wars. He voted for the war in Iraq, remember, and he is clearly not a pacifist.

More than that, he has promised that he will not appoint any judges who will not support abortion to the courts. The president appoints, on average, 40 judges a year to courts that make decisions that affect every day issues very directly, including the decison to overturn legislation that restricts abortion. President Bush has signed into law 2 laws that Clinto vetoed (and Kerry has voted against in the senate): The Partial Birth Abortion Ban, and the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Kerry would have vetoed these laws.

More than that, I think Kerry will veto any attempts to restrict and void the current attempts for gay marriage.

Also, I think it's incorrect to say that Iraq was 100% pro-life. Saddam Hussein was killing thousands of people DAILY. In fact, I read somewhere that per capita, the number of people killed by Saddam every day was greater than the number of children killed by abortion in our country.

In 5 years, the War in Iraq will be a distant memory. But the effects of the Pro-Life laws and the gay marriage laws will still be with us. I don't think Kerry is an acceptable alternative to Bush.

I don't plan to vote for either.

Stephen

By the way, I just saw that you are using gmail . . . is that Google mail? . . . I know that it's by invitation only ... do you think you could send me an invitation

JustCatholicChyck

Just want to preface by saying thanks for being so nice. A couple of Catholics who I have tried to discuss this with got hostile when I said I didn't like Bush! The guy seems to have a cult following. ;)

I think there are a huge number of wrong information going around. In the US there are 1.5 million abortions every year. There were definitely not 1.5 million people being killed in Iraq. I don’t believe the Pope would have opposed the war if that was the case. There was a lot of propaganda going around to try and convince American’s that this war (which was preemptive—thus going against Catholic teaching on Just war), was the right thing to do. I believe the Vatican had the most unbiased news and everything I read on www.vatican.va was strongly opposed and critical of the US actions. I have a hard time trusting our government and what information they feed us.

Kerry also has said that he would consider Pro-Life judges as Bush has said he would consider Pro-Choice Judges. I personally wish I could believe Bush was pro-life but unfortunately I can’t think of anyone who is more anti-life, even Kerry. And yes, I don’t like Kerry at all!!! I may even just right in a candidate or something, but I would never vote for Bush, even to a point where I would vote for Kerry over him.

Have you seen Faranhiet 9/11? I suggest seeing it, I didn’t want to see it myself, but went with some friends, who wanted to see the “fuss”, I was actually really impressed, it was the most pro-life movie I have seen in ages. Yes, it was one sided but it talked about the dark side of a dark war, something we as a country haven’t talked enough about. If you have a chance see it, yes, you might not like all of it, but it might help you see why there are some Pro-Life Catholics who might end up voting Democrat over Republican.

It always interests me that we as a country never talk about China. Millions of women are FORCED into abortions in that country, and Catholics are killed and torchered. Yet our country loves to help out China. Suddan is also having a genocide right now, yet what are we doing to help them. I believe we had self interests in Iraq and therefore started this war.

About the Gmail, I should have a few invites but not for a few weeks, I want to see if some of my family and close friends want them first, but if there are any left over I will give you one.

Thanks for letting me think about this issue. :)

Stephen

First, I want to clarify . . . I did not say that Saddam was killing more people than we are aborting, I said Per-capita . . . that means that comparing our relative populations, a greater percentage of people were bein murdered in Iraq than are murdered here by abortion.

I agree that China and Sudan are serious issues. In fact, President Bush through his Secretary at the UN has been working hard to pressure Sudan and to protest its position on the UN Human Rights Council. You can thank Bill Clinton and the Democratic party for our current buddy buddiness with China.

It is my understanding that Kerry has said he refuses to appoint Judges who will not "Uphold Roe v. Wade" . . . if you have information to the contrary, please tell me where I can find it.

I am dubiuous of any documentary made by Michael Moore. He is hardly objective and his documentaries are usually full of the most outrageous lies. Already, many people who are Kerry supporters have pointed out the incredible fabrications of Farenheit. I have a link on my blog to an article by Christopher Hitchens (who hates the Church by the way) about the movie. You should check it out.

JustCatholicChyck

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/19/212822.shtml

Yes, Kerry did say he will be open to appointing Pro-Life Judges, Just as Bush has said he will appoint Pro-Choice ones.

Hey, and I am not a Kerry supporter, far from it!!!!!!! I just am terrified of what Bush has done in office; including the way he handled September 11th, bringing us into (what I and the Pope believe to be) an unjust and completely unethical war, lying to the country, supporting the rich over the poor, and the patriot act.

I don't like Kerry one bit, but there is no one more frightening than Bush. So what is a Catholic to do?? If I believed for one second Bush was really pro-life he would definately have my vote, but I believe he is not, and is only lying to get votes.

I still think you should see Farenheit 9/11. I had the same point of view that you did, btw. I did not want to see it, but I found the movie much different from the "lies" that are being spread about it. Trust me I really didn't want to see it, but I found much of it extremly interesting. Don't believe everything you hear. Remember how many people spread bad rumours about The Passion? The same people who bad mouthed it wouldn't even bother to see it. I don't think you should do the same thing, see it and then if you don't like it bad mouth it. But you can't really critisize something you haven't seen.

Take my Farenhiet 9/11 challenge...you might be happy you did, or not, but you won't be less informed.

JustCatholicChyck

Oh, my point in all this is really just to say I don't really have any problems with people that do decide to vote for Bush. But I want people to understand you can be pro-life and not vote for him. There are people like me who do not believe he is pro-life at all, so for us, we would go against out concience to vote for him. Seriously it would be a breach of ethics for me to vote for Bush. As for Kerry I am still trying to figure out what to do about that. Two people I consider anti-life. One who *I* think is worse. What am I to do? Heck I will tell you when I find out.

Stephen

I don't think you can vote for Kerry without committing a sin.

I don't think you have to vote for George Bush.

I do know that Michael Moore's Farenheit is a dishonest movie. I have seen his other movies and they are filled with lies and misrepresentations. I don't expect documentaries to be objective, but I do appreciate it when they are honest. Farenheit 9/11 is not one of them. I will see it though, but I'm not foolish enough to believe the claims he puts forward. He has made the movie with the sole intention of embarassing Bush. That's not exactly a worthy cause.

Regarding Kerry appointing someone pro-life, he says:

Kerry said he has voted in favor of "any number of judges who are pro-life or pro-something else that I may not agree with," some of whom were nominated by Republican presidents. "But I'm going to make sure we uphold what I believe are Constitutional rights and I'm not going to pick somebody who's going to undermine those rights."

"Do they have to agree with me on everything? No," Kerry said. Asked if they must agree with his abortion-rights views, he quickly added, "I will not appoint somebody with a 5-4 Court who's about to undo Roe v. Wade. I've said that before."

"But that doesn't mean that if that's not the balance of the court I wouldn't be prepared ultimately to appoint somebody to some court who has a different point of view. I've already voted for people like that. I voted for Judge Scalia."

When he says he won't appoint anyone who disagrees with what he believes are constitutional rights, what does he mean? You guessed it, abortion.

When he says he won't appoint anyone to the Supreme Court who would undo Roe, unless the court is "balanced" what does that mean? If the court is balanced and he appoints a pro-lifer, it immediately becomes unbalanced.

Kerry is a liar who is trying to "sound" pro-life despite being one of the most pro-abortion Senators in history.

JustCatholicChyck

Ah, but you see I think Bush is even more of a liar. So which liar to vote for? Liar #1 or #2? Perhaps I will just write in Pope John Paull II. Not sure at this point what I will do, but 4 more years of Bush really does scare me. 4 years of Kerry also scares me but scares me a bit less.

JustCatholicChyck

Forgot to add too bad you are not willing to see Farenhiet 9/11. It was extremly spiritually moving for me and for others I know. I have made renewed effort after the movie to do my weekly holy hour and to attend daily Mass. Never had a secular movie had that effect on me before. If a movie can do that to someone, encourage them to go to Mass and Holy Hour, I can't see how it is anything but a truly holy movie. You know a tree by its fruit, and for me even the Passion didn't change me so much. Heck I have been to dozens of retreats and they have not moved me so much to work for Christ and good as Michael Moore has in 9/11.

Too bad there are so many angry ditractors who won't even bother seeing the movie they condemn and turn away good people like you from what could be a life changing event.

I have added Michael Moore to my daily prayer list, I found out he wanted to be a priest years ago, and I believe his Catholic faith is still strong even though obviously he has fallen away. To bad more people are outraged more over what they claim (wronly) are "lies" in a movie than true lies told to us by our Presidant that caused thousands of people to die. I can't figure out where the values of American's are anymore....

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